Re: [ARSCLIST] Subject: RE: [ARSCLIST] historical stylus rake angles (SRA)

[Jeffrey Kane <jeffkane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

RE: The sound; wouldn't say better or worse just... different. If (big if)
you can get the vinyl clean enough it's a unique listening experience... I'd
describe it as the difference between film and video. Both will reproduce
the same image but will do it with quite different subjective results.

IMO, ELP would be video, if you will. It's very very 'fast', almost TOO
fast. The sonic presentation is dry and the dynamics are somewhat compressed
when the going gets *really* serious. It does have some neat tricks up its
sleeve but overall I find that it reproduces MORE noise than a given
'table/cartridge combo. It also doesn't seem to do soundstaging as well.

I do wonder what an all out cost no object player would sound like but I
would think they need to address the noise issue first (I cannot overstate
how noisy playback is).

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of steven austin
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Subject: RE: [ARSCLIST] historical stylus rake
angles (SRA)

But Keith Jarrett has one! (snicker)

Is it really not special? If they could work out the fidelity challenge,
wouldn't it be great to have a no-friction player?

Steven Austin



-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James L Wolf
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 2:21 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Subject: RE: [ARSCLIST] historical stylus rake
angles (SRA)

Contary to what some say, the ELP is not a high-fidelity instrument.
It'll track most ordinary discs, but don't ask for much more from it.
Pretty much any needle/cartridge combo sounds better.

James

>>> stevena@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 1/7/2005 3:42:27 PM >>>
Just wondering, along these lines...has anyone ever used an ELP laser
turntable (www.laserturntable.com)?

I wonder if it wouldn't make rake angles a moot point.


Steven Austin

(sorry Eric, for the flub to your email address)


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Jacobs
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:50 AM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ARSCLIST] historical stylus rake angles (SRA)

Does anyone know of a reference where I might find historical stylus
rake
angles?  Even some rough guidance on this list would be useful.

Note that SRA (the angle the stylus makes with the record surface) is
not to
be confused with the Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA) which is the angle
the
cantilever makes with the record surface.  Of course, VTA and SRA are
directly related by the angle at which the stylus is mounted to the
cantilever.

Modern cartridges and tonearms are designed for SRA values of zero
(ie.
a
vertical stylus, perpendicular to the record surface) or slightly
positive
to about 3 degrees or so.  I realize that SRA values, like VTA, will
vary by
record label and need to be adjusted for each record for optimal
playback if
you are a perfectionist.  SRA and VTA are primarily affected by record
thickness and cartridge height.

Variations in SRA (fractions of degrees) are most audible on LPs with
their
lower noise, wider frequency response and narrower grooves making VTA
an
important adjustment for each LP.

How critical is SRA for accurate playback on acoustic or electric 78s
or
transcription discs?  Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

The reason behind my question is that the 1-2 inches of VTA adjustment
on a
tonearm will only compensate the SRA by a few degrees.  In fact,
tonearm
VTA
adjustment is best suited to compensate for variations in cartridge
height
and record thickness since it is assumed that the cartridge SRA is
correct
when the tonearm is level.  If historical SRAs used rakes of 5 degees
or
greater, some sort of custom cartridge mount would need to be devised
(a
wedge shaped block or shim) to achieve the correct SRA.

Because of the limitations of tonearm VTA adjustment, it is not
possible
for
me to experiment with large variations in SRA and listen for
differences.
Optical measurements of SRA are not possible with my 150x microscope
with
0.01 mm measurement reticle.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some light on this question.

Eric Jacobs
The Audio Archive
San Jose, California