Re: [ARSCLIST] identifying acetate substrates

[David Lennick <dlennick@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

If you can't see even faintly through them, they're aluminum..you can also
(lightly!) tap your ring against the edge of the disc. Aluminum and glass discs
will have distinctly different sounds. I've also had many instances where
sleeves designated for glass based discs were used for aluminums, and I've seen
discs where "glass" was printed or typed on the label and then scratched out
(Audiodiscs, of course, didn't say "glass" on the label, leaving you to find out
the hard way). Some may even be steel based, made very early in the war years.
These are much heavier than conventional aluminum.

It's also been my experience that glass discs don't tend to show palmitic acid,
but maybe I've just been lucky.

Mike Biel, where are you?

dl

Eric Jacobs wrote:

> All the discs are opaque even with strong backlighting.  Does that mean that
> they are not glass?  The discs themselves don't say "glass", but archivist's
> notes say "glass".
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Lennick [mailto:dlennick@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:11 PM
> To: ericj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] identifying acetate substrates
>
> If they say glass, chances are they ARE glass, especially if the center
> portion
> looks removable. Very carefully hold one up to the light..if it's glass,
> you'll
> see through it. During a specific period, about 1941 to some time in 1945,
> aluminum discs were very difficult to obtain since aluminum was needed for
> war
> materials. Glass and paper went in as substitutes. In Canada, the CBC began
> recording on glass discs in 1940 (which raises the question as to why this
> happened, if Canada didn't have a company manufacturing recording
> blanks....)
>
> Not all glass discs have the cardboard centre (which is under the label and
> theoretically shouldn't be removable, but then was then and now is now). I
> think
> Presto discs are glass right to the center hole.
>
> dl
>
> Eric Jacobs wrote:
>
> > I'm working on a set of 16-inch acetates from the 1940s, and some are
> > manufactured on what appears to be a particulate substrate (looks like
> wood
> > chips when you look at the spindle and registration holes).  Looking at
> the
> > edges, although no edge is fully exposed, it appears that the particulate
> > substrate is used throughout the disc.  These are war-era discs, which is
> > why they are not the usual aluminum substrate.  The discs are "audiodisc"
> > brand (models 2063, 9083, 9112, 9115, 9122).
> >
> > Here are my questions:
> >
> > 1.  I would like to know more about this particulate substrate - its
> > composition and so on, and if it might require different storage than
> > aluminum or glass substrate discs.  The discs were identified as "glass"
> > substrate, but the particulate substrate doesn't seem consistent with or
> > look like a glass substrate.
> >
> > 2.  These particulate substrate discs have what appears to be a "knock
> out"
> > center (66 mm diamater).  Would anyone know if there was such a thing as a
> > turntable with a 66 mm spindle?  I'm curious as to why these would have
> what
> > appears to be a removable center.  Was this simply a manufacturing
> process,
> > or might it have been functional?
> >
> > 3.  How do you identify a glass substrate acetate disc?  Was the glass
> > substrate continuous, or was the center spindle/label area one type of
> > material (aluminum?) which was then bonded to a glass substrate annulus?
> >
> > 4.  Has anyone cataloged the various 16-inch acetates by brand, model
> > number, and composition?  I'm finding some patterns of palmitic acid
> > formation which might correlate to the type of acetate disc.  My sample
> size
> > is not large enough yet to draw any conclusions (and I need to research
> > storage conditions more), but this could lead to some knowledge about
> which
> > types of acetate discs may or may not be more prone to deterioration.
> >
> > Eric Jacobs
> > The Audio Archive