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Re: [ARSCLIST] Early HiFi, was: Re: [ARSCLIST] discography of "direct-to-disk revival"?



Hi George:

We actually agree on some points. However, I have to disagree with your overall point about 78's being capable of high fidelity. I just don't see how anyone can put a 78 on and think they are in the presence of the performance. Just to be clear one more time -- the fidelity will be better with metal parts, but I still say that the frequency response will almost always be too limited and the various distortions too high to be life-like. LPs got much closer and in some cases put you there (if you consider a good vinyl noice floor can be as low as the noise floor of the ventillation system and people breathing in a good performance space). The master tapes of those LPs are several degrees yet more life-like. Digital, especially high resolution, should be capable of putting your right there, and the mass format should be audibly identical or near-identical to the master recording. Whether it's used to that end is another question.

This is all I'm going to say about 78's and high fidelity because I don't think any of us are going to change minds. I want to be clear, also, that I don't think the recorded heritage on 78's is of less value because the medium is low-fi. On the contrary, music from that era has as much value as any other era and should be preserved. And, in an age where we have mastering guys who are skilled enough to go back to the metal parts (when they exist) and get a superb transfer and then use digital tools, skillfully, to get a playback "for the masses" that is vastly superior to what could be done in the day the music was recorded, this is all for the good. Finally, I am very happy that some disagree with me, vehemently. That means that the recordings of the 78 era will continue to be appreciated and loved and preserved.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <pattac@xxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Early HiFi, was: Re: [ARSCLIST] discography of "direct-to-disk revival"?



From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad

Hi Tom and others,

you wrote a lengthy response that deserves a well-considered answer.


By the definitions I've always learned, high-fidelity sound requires frequency range at or near limits of human hearing (generally agreed to be 20hz to 20khz),

----- well, that only became the definition when it was reachable. Both before and after, the 800 Hz rule still has its use. This says that the sound will appear agreeable and balanced, if the frequency response is symmetrical (logarithmic scale) about 800 Hz, provided the trailing off at both ends is gentle. It is sometimes expressed differently: the product of the highest and the lowest -3 dB frequency shall be 640,000. In other words, if you remove top, you also have to remove bottom. For instance, 80 Hz to 8 kHz sounds better than if you only widen the treble.


low distortion (defined various ways) and certain unmeasurable
qualities provided by good microphones placed properly

----- one microphone only, sometimes two, were used for 78s


and a clean signal
chain recorded properly

----- the important thing was that the non-linear distortions (airgap in particular) as well as the linear distortions (resonances, not the least their influence on phase/delay) were kept in check from the time that feedback was developed for use in cutterheads (we shall remain silent on modern Neumann cutterheads at 18 kHz). It was mostly a velocity feedback, because the pickup for the feedback was a small, decoupled coil.

----- the early Western Electric, Fairchild, and Presto recording heads were
not feedback heads, but Blumlein's cutterhead was. Feedback was also a way to
overcome the increased cutting resistance towards the center of the record

----- feedback certainly took care of obtaining precise cutting. The
contemporary pickup was mostly abominable, and the steel needle getting
progressively more squat towards the centre where precisely that would be
even more detrimental to the signal, did not help.

----- however even modern replay has its problems, and they are not
automatically removed by using an elliptical (preferably line-contact)
stylus. The reason is that the shank of the cutting stylus (sapphire in
aluminum mostly in those days - now they are naked) could and would be
slightly rotated around its axis in the holder - more so for private lacquer
recording. Also the rake angle (leaning forwards of vertical, vertical, or
leaning backwards) would be individual to the cutterheads. There was no
vertical modulation in consumer 78s, so there is no need to consider
modulation angle. An elliptical stylus only does its work if the "line"
contact with the groove mimics precisely the trace of the cutting stylus.
Those two parameters are never mentioned and never actively taken into
account when early records are reproduced using ellipticals. But they both
contribute to a distortion that is similar in principle to azimuth error on
tape and sound film.


on high-fidelity (ie as near as possible to
input=output) media.

----- wax was a high-fidelity recording medium. It was still used by Cornell University for bird sounds in the 1980s. Mastering could be good - not all was. First-class pressing material (Victor Z-material is an example) was good when it was new - I fear that ageing may have made even a pristine copy slightly more noisy than if we had had modern reproduction equipment then

78's inherently fall down in both frequency range and
usually in distortion, plus the signal chain before the disk-recording
equipment was of limited fidelity until the electronic era had some time to
evolve. The limits of the medium thus make it low-fi. By 78's, I mean the
disks that were available for purchase (ie the mass media).

----- as you will have noted, I protest against "inherently"


Metal parts are
another matter, especially as far as distortion and signal-to-noise ratio.
Some of the CD's Doug Pomeroy has done from metal parts for BMG/Bluebird sound
like they came off early tape, and that's a compliment (although this would be
_really_ early tape since the Ampex 200 was capable of 30hz to 15K response
and 1% or less distortion with most musical impulses).

----- I have already cleared up the muddle about the metals - they are fabulous, but the consumer Hungarian March was/is good

There are some CD
reissues I've heard of Noel Coward -- made at the end of the acoustic era, I
believe -- that sound like you're in the room (if your hearing cut off at 8K,
so "the room" would have to be coated in drapes and Coward would be
over-enunciating to cut through the drapes).

----- loss of high frequency is not usually the effect of an anechoic chamber; you would probably be thinking of Coward having a sack over his head. But have you heard the originals?

But the 78 mass media was, alas,
a junk media like 8-tracks. Not approaching most people's definition of high
fidelity.

----- actually, it would take quite a lot of educating until you can rely on "most people"

LPs came much closer and got better over time (if American companies
had been more careful about how they manufactured LPs, the mass media would
have exceeded the capabilities of the playback equipment early on, but I can
cite numerous sins of short-cuts that led to inferior records -- borne out by
great CD remasters from the tapes in some cases). [tape discussion cut]

I think it's pretty hard to argue with this -- as a mass medium CD's have the
greatest potential for the highest fidelity in the largest percentages of
individual units. This is due to an essentially lossless manufacturing process
and a medium likely to work well right out of the box (remember how many LPs
you'd take home that were shrink-wrapped too tight and were thus warped from
the get-go --  or all those records you bought that were drilled off-center so
they wow). Now, whether the music companies choose to reach the full potential
(which is hard, thankless work, just like it was with every other previous
medium) is another question.

----- and in my personal view, very few have the stamina. BIS records from Sweden, possibly NIMBUS in Great Britain, had.


Bottom line, as a mass medium, I think it's pretty hard to call 78's high-fidelity.

----- I think that some are, but the greatest grudge is gritty noise. And the systems for removing that last bit of hiss are detrimental to the sound. If the hiss is not only pink but also has a line-type spectrum (acoustic records), then those systems really f--- u-.


PS -- [skipped]


PPS -- whether something is worth listening to in a low-fi medium or not is
another question. For most people, the answer is yes, especially judging from
the trend to step back to nearly 78 quality in the digi-compressed formats
found at iTunes and on iPods.

----- oh, the phenomena cannot be compared. Please! They have different causes and they certainly sound very different. The digi-compressed formats are much, much worse than the sounds from 78s. I think you could best compare it to telephones: landline versus cellphone (digital). Try to focus on the sound in a cellphone: delays of frequency components, falsified attack transients, artefacts. Once you have learnt to distinguish the corruptions of the signals, you will also find them in many re-issues of early material on CD, albeit less prominent. You may want to use real headphones for this, not just one ear.

Kind regards,


George



P.S. You will see that I have proposed a change of subject line.


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