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Re: [ARSCLIST] RealNetworks -- a horrid format from a horrible company
Hey dismuke... did you even LOOK at that link?
If I have to put SPYWARE on my computer to get any kind of audio files, I'm
out. I don't care if they are FREE. And a lot of people feel the same way.
Like I said, "To each their own." I think I have a right to my opinion, and
you are to yours.
Let me say a couple of things: You imply that I'm part of a group of
complainers that *rudely* notifying folks when I don't like their site or
something. This couldn't be further from the truth. Many people do not
realize the extent that Real-Audio infects there system with Ad/Spyware.
When they find out, some of them seem pretty happy to get a "heads-up" - and
they reply in kind.
For those that don't - no sweat. I just won't be back to their site.
However, most folks are upset that Real Audio files would preclude some part
of the internet population... Especially commercial sites. When I wrote an
email to Narada Jazz about this very issue, they very quickly started
producing all of their sample files in both Real Audio *AND* mp3's.
Listen, you can rationalize your choices by the fact that you provide a free
service, and you work hard at providing it, the time you spend, etc. That's
absolutely fine! :-) But if someone says, "sorry, that's not for me",
please don't be offended.
My message was to simply point out that *some* people (like me) take this
kind of thing seriously. Sorry if you felt I was taking a shot at you
personally - that wasn't my intention. I was taking a shot at Real Audio.
Cheers!
Rob Poretti
Sascom - Toronto
vox.905.825.5373 fax.905.469.1129 cel.905.580.2467
www.sascom.com www.cube-tec.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dismuke [mailto:dismuke@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: October 28, 2006 5:06 PM
> To: r.poretti@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ARSCLIST] RealNetworks -- a horrid format from
> a horrible company
>
>
> There are a great many websites that I don't visit for
> a variety of reasons - usually because I find their
> content uninteresting. But if someone sends me an
> email that says they will not be visiting mine, I
> usually tell them where they can go.....that is if I
> even bother to reply in the first place, which I
> usually don't.
>
> Let's see..... I provide a service to the public for
> FREE and at considerable time and expense to myself.
> To date, my revenue from my online ventures has been
> exactly ZERO. So if someone chooses not to take
> advantage of it for whatever reason.... well, that is
> that much bandwidth I save.
>
> It is all I can do to keep the site updated with new
> content - and switching everthing over to a new format
> would take many HOURS of very tedious work. And it is
> not like I have nothing else to do with my time. I
> have a full time job, a lengthy commute both way, a
> house and all the chores that having one requires, the
> normal day-to-day errands everyone else has, etc.
> Again, I am providing a service for FREE - so if
> someone doesn't want to take advantage of it, that's
> their business.
>
> I am sure the same is for Riverwalk Jazz as well -
> they provide a great site with LOTS of wonderful
> information for FREE. I am sure that for them to use
> some other streaming service than what Public Radio
> makes available to them probably at no cost would be
> as much of a hassle for them as it is for me. I am
> grateful that Riverwalk Jazz exists and for the people
> who have contibuted the money that makes it possible.
>
> My expectations of what I get in terms of services
> from complete strangers for FREE are very limited.
> Whatever I get above those expectations I am grateful
> for. And if I don't like what is offered for
> free.....well, one gets what one pays for. And for
> those people who occasionally write me saying that
> they will never visit my site or listen to my station
> again because they don't like this or that - well, I
> have stopped being surprised by it. Good mannners in
> our culture fell in to the sewer about the same time
> that music did and probably for the same reasons.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Rob Poretti <r.poretti@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > If I go to a web-site that only uses Real-Audio, I
> > try to send an email to
> > the web-master, with this link:
> >
> >
> http://www.google.ca/search?q=Real+audio+spyware&start=0&ie=ut
> f-8&oe=utf-8&c
> > lient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
> >
> > I inform them that I won't return to their site -
> > and generally, I don't.
> >
> > Anyone that knowingly supports a company that
> > propagates spyware on the
> > internet, is just as guilty as the original party.
> > I have little patience
> > for corporations that add to the problem of spyware
> > and AdWare, which IMHO,
> > can be as bad as viruses.
> >
> > I installed an early version of Real-Audio on my
> > computer once, and cleanly
> > getting it off was not easy. (see results above.)
> >
> > Secondly, as an "internet audio mastering guy" I
> > have no idea what the
> > attraction is. Their CODECS range from *horrible*
> > to very average. My
> > guess is, that when they were initially distributing
> production tools,
> > they developed enough of a user base to survive. Thanks
> > to companies like the
> > BBC, I guess they continue to survive. You can bet
> > I won't be visiting the
> > BBC sites, at the very least on principle.
> >
> > "To each their own."
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob Poretti
> > Sascom - Toronto
> > vox.905.825.5373 fax.905.469.1129
> > cel.905.580.2467
> > www.sascom.com www.cube-tec.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion
> > List
> > > [mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dismuke
> > > Sent: October 27, 2006 1:20 PM
> > > To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] RealNetworks -- a horrid
> > format from
> > > a horrible company
> > >
> > >
> > > I completely agree with the description of the
> > horrors
> > > of the Real Player - I have experienced everything described and
> > > more. I refuse to update to new versions because I have
> no need for
> > > them and
> > because I
> > > have finally got my player set up so that such
> > > distractions are rare.
> > >
> > > That having been said, I am, nevertheless, one of
> > > those people who uses Real Audio to stream audio
> > > content on his website (my radio station, Radio
> > > Dismuke, however, streams in mp3). Another site
> > that
> > > uses Real Audio and with which I suspect most
> > people
> > > here are familiar with is redhotjazz.com
> > >
> > > The reason I still continue to use Real Audio is
> > > simple: it is what I started out with and the time
> > it
> > > would take to convert everything to a different
> > format
> > > would be tremendous. I am already hard pressed
> > for
> > > time simply with the task of adding new content.
> > For
> > > me to go back and convert everything over to some
> > > other format - well, I simply do not have the time
> > to
> > > do it. And to suddenly start using multiple
> > formats I
> > > think would make things rather user-unfriendly for
> > a
> > > lot of people.
> > >
> > > The orgins of my website date back to 1998 when my
> > > computer had a 33k modem. My first experience
> > with
> > > streaming audio was on the old Wolverine Antique
> > Music
> > > Society website which had a handful of Real Audio
> > > clips with vintage music. MP3 existed at the
> > time -
> > > but I was unaware that it could be streamed. My
> > > experience with mp3 files was that one had to
> > download
> > > the entire file to one's computer before listening
> > to
> > > it - which took a few minutes per song on a 33k
> > modem.
> > > To me, the ability to stream over dial up was
> > very
> > > important as the purpose of my site was to
> > introduce
> > > people to vintage music who were previously
> > unfamiliar
> > > with it. Somebody who is already a fan of vintage
> recordings MIGHT
> > > wait a few minutes for a file to download - but those who merely
> > > wish to check it
> > out
> > > are not going to be so patient. Real Audio
> > provided
> > > the means by which one could simply click on a
> > link
> > > and hear music almost instantly even on a slow
> > modem -
> > > and if the listener did not like a particular
> > song,
> > > they could easily click on another song's link and
> > > immediately start listening. The ability to
> > encode
> > > mp3s at lower bitrates and to stream them using
> > m3u
> > > files might very well have existed back then - but
> > I
> > > was not aware of it. All the streaming audio
> > sites I
> > > was familiar with used Real Audio - so that is
> > what I
> > > went with.
> > >
> > > I am not sure of the exact reasons why redhotjazz
> > > continues to use the format - but I would not be
> > > surprised if the reasons are similar to my own.
> > That
> > > site dates back even earlier than mine does and
> > has
> > > many hundreds of files on it. Converting it over
> > > would be just as much of a nightmare as it would
> > be
> > > with mine - perhaps even more so since I believe a
> > lot
> > > of that sites material has been donated by
> > collectors.
> > >
> > >
> > > As for Riverwalk - from what I can tell, the
> > streaming
> > > audio services for the clip mentioned was provided
> > by
> > > Public Radio, not Riverwalk itself. My guess is
> > > Riverwalk simply uses the resources which have
> > been
> > > made available to it probably at no cost to them
> > and
> > > has no wider control over what Public Radio
> > chooses to
> > > provide in that area. Public Radio probably has
> > its
> > > own reasons for using the format.
> > >
> > > While I am very sympathetic to the concerns people
> > > have about Real Audio, if someone were to write
> > me
> > > that they would no longer visit my site because of
> > it
> > > - well, all I can say is that they probably did
> > not
> > > value the site that much to begin with and are
> > able to
> > > find plenty of other sites out there with content
> > they
> > > enjoy in more convenient formats. I, for one,
> > > however, am not willing to give up the wonderful
> > and
> > > obscure content which, unfortuantely, is only
> > > available through Real Player. Are you willing to
> > > give up Riverwalk Jazz? How many places besides
> > > redhotjazz can you go to and have a decent chance
> > of
> > > being able to hear that 1920s recording by Irving
> > > Aaronson and His Commanders that you saw people
> > > discussing in an online message board? On my
> > > website's "Hit of the Week Update" this week, my
> > guest
> > > contributor features the 1931 "Victor Artists'
> > Party" 33 rpm
> > > Program Transcription - a demonstration disc
> > introducing the
> > > new long playing format which only
> > > lasted a couple of years. How many places online
> > can
> > > you go to to hear a Program Transcription?
> > >
> > > Finally, writing site owners about the horrors of
> > Real
> > > Audio probably does not provide them with
> > information
> > > that they don't already know about. After all,
> > they
> > > have to work with the format and undoubtedly
> > listen in
> > > to at least make sure the streams are working.
> > Trust
> > > me, they too have been through everthing which has
> > > been described.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Erik Dix <edix@xxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Tom!
> > > >
> > > > You could try real
> > > > alternative.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Alternative.htm
> > > > and this for quicktime:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm
> > > > It worked for the files i tried to play. I
> > refuse to
> > > > install the
> > > > "real" real player or quicktime on my computer.
> > > > Hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > > Erik
> > > >
> > > > At 08:12 AM 10/27/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >OK, now it's time for a short rant, one user's
> > > > viewpoint.
> > > > >Archivists, please avoid using this awful
> > format
> > > > for your
> > > > >public-available content.
> > > > >
> > > > >My favorite over-Internet radio show, Riverwalk
> > > > Jazz, had a bonus
> > > > >thing -- excerpts from a 1973 WRVR
> > > > >interview with John Hammond:
> > > > >http://tinyurl.com/yd6s2e
> > > > >
> > > > >Unfortunately, no playback options except
> > > > RealAudio. I smelled
> > > > >trouble immediately. Real player launches and
> > > > >demands to be updated. No playing the clips
> > unless
> > > > it updates. OK,
> > > > >sigh, now I know there's trouble
> > > > >coming.
> > > > >
> > > > >Download takes 5 minutes. Install takes another
> > 5
> > > > minutes. Then the
> > > > >post-install process, where Real
> > > > >shows itself as the most goniff-y, classless
> > > > company out there. I
> > > > >think all websites should be
> > > > >strong told by their users and patrons not to
> > use
> > > > this format. I
> > > > >always send messages to webmasters because I
> > feel
> > > > that Real is truly
> > > > >a horrible company.
> > > > >
> > > > >You have to UNSELECT all the formats you don't
> > want
> > > > Real to take
> > > > >over. Instead of telling it what to
> > > > >do, you have to take 5-10 minutes of CAREFULLY
> > > > telling it what NOT
> > > > >to do, or you'll find that Real
> > > > >takes over all audio and video formats -- and
> > > > throws its bloated
> > > > >player and ads all over your
> > > > >computer. Plus, you have to go into buried
> > menus to
> > > > turn off
> > > > >auto-update, and if you don't register
> > > > >it under a fake e-mail, they will spam you
> > whether
> > > > you uncheck all
> > > > >the spam options or not. HATEFUL!
> > > > >
> > > > >Oh, and they also default select the pay-to-use
> > > > player on the
> > > > >install, so if you don't pay attention they'll
> > be
> > > > asking for credit
> > > > >card info. Yeah, over my dead body! And these
> > > > goniffs sued Microsoft
> > > > >over alleged "monopoly" issues! At least
> > Microsoft
> > > > provides a player
> > > > >as part of the OS on 95% of desktops, not as
> > some
> > > > bloated, ad-laden,
> > > > >invasive, spamming option.
> > > > >
> > > > >I sent a very strong e-mail to my friends at
> > > > Riverwalk about using
> > > > >this format. Real should be
> > > > >driven out of business or forced to change
> > their
> > > > >spamming/invasive/toxicware ways.
> > > > >
> > > > >By the way, Quicktime is the same kind of setup
> > --
> > > > you have to
> > > > >carefully go thru several steps or it will also
> > > > take over all your
> > > > >media formats. Big strike against Apple on
> > that.
> > > > Also, Quicktime
> > > > >used to be toxic to some Windows computers,
> > > > although that's improved
> > > > >in recent versions. But I wouldn't have
> > Quicktime
> > > > on any of my
> > > > >computers if it wasn't required for iTunes.
> > > > >
> > > > >-- Tom Fine
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>