Re: [ARSCLIST] Rhythm, Tennstedt and the Haas effect

[Steven Smolian <smolians@xxxxxxxxx>]

The effect of a "welling up" of sound of a heavily orchestrated chord is 
created by the beat being anticipated slightly by the lower instruments of 
the orchestra, usually the basses and, slightly later, the cellos.  This 
does not displace the feeling of a steady pulse as the rest of the group 
plays on the beat.  Klaus Tennstedt was one of the great masters at having 
his orchstra create this sound when he felt it called for.

So the frequency band contributes to how this effect is percieved.

Steve Smolian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marcos Sueiro" <mls2137@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 8:47 AM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Haas effect


> Hi, George,
>
> I do not normally disagree with your posts, but I thought the Haas effect, 
> strictly speaking, referred to localisation of a sound source; i.e., given 
> a pair of sound sources A and B in different places but the same signal, 
> the earlier (<40 ms) sound from A will determine the perceived overall 
> location, even if the sound from point B is quite a bit louder. At delays 
>  > ~40 ms, the two sources start to be distinguishable.
>
> I would think of what you describe more as a sort of masking effect.
>
> Cheers,
>
> marcos
>
> George Brock-Nannestad wrote:
> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Karl Miller commented on
> > > Don Cox <doncox@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > >   ****One major problem is that the various notes of a chord are played 
> > > > at
> > > > different velocities (to use the MIDI term), in order to bring out the
> > > > counterpoint. I think it would be very difficult to disentangle this 
> > > > from
> > > > the noisy waveforms.
> > >    Indeed, and with the reproducing piano roll this is a given 
> > > limitation as
> > > the keyboard is divided into a treble and bass range with one dynamic 
> > > level
> > > available for each.
> > >    Karl
> >
> > ----- I have to confess that I do not know what "velocity" means in MIDI, 
> > but in piano playing this means the speed with which the key is 
> > depressed, and that determines the "strength" of the note sounded. 
> > However, it is the timing of a note and not its strength that determines 
> > what is perceived - the precedence effect (used to be called the Haas 
> > effect) says that the first sound to arrive will determine the timing, 
> > and if the same sound is reproduced stronger slightly later, it is still 
> > the first that determines the perceived timing. And fortunately, timing 
> > is what a piano roll can provide, although it cannot provide individual 
> > dynamics. I think that it is the precise timing that actually makes the 
> > illusion created by piano rolls so good.
> >
> > ----- in stating the above I will not say that the pianist does not think 
> > that he regulates the dynamics for each individual note - he may or he 
> > may not - but then the pianist also thinks that the feeling with which 
> > the key is held down _after_ the sounding will influence the sound. It 
> > will influence the pianist only (and perhaps an audience with eyes open 
> > to watch the antics).
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> > George
>
>
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