Re: [ARSCLIST] the origin of scratchin' (final words)

["Andes, Donald" <Donald.Andes@xxxxxxxxxx>]

David,

Although this thread, which initially peaked my interest, is
increasingly losing value, I will make my final statement by COMPLETELY
copying the initial question that Tom posted. Feel free to reply, if you
need the last word, but I have nothing left to state beyond this email.


>>>>>>Quote:
Who was the first rap/hip-hop artist to use a turntable, record and
cartridge as a rhythm instrument, i.e. "scratchin'"? My guess would be
Grand Master Flash's DJ or Run-DMC's DJ, but I admit not knowing the
full genesis of rap.

Thanks in advance if you know the answer!

-- Tom Fine 
>>>>>>End quote:

I feel I and a few others correctly framed our answers to the specific
question asked. Although your additions to the thread may have been
worthwhile, they were out of context, as the initial question directly
asked for a rap/hip hop artist.

Don Andes
EMI Music


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Lewis
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:10 PM
To: ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] the origin of scratchin'

Don wrote:

If we are literal enough to interpret the question as you did, I believe
the only possible inventor of the "scratch" should be limited to the
initial inventor(s) of stylus based media; I'm speaking pre-disc record,
and possibly even pre-cylinder.

I feel it safe to assume that said inventor(s) would have most likely
stopped, paused, reversed, or scratched the media inadvertently or
purposely during the test and development phase of their invention.

So now that we've answered Tom in a manner that is equally literal and
useless, I'm sure he'll re-ask the question to include the obvious
assumption he was referencing.

Don Andes
EMI Music

P.S. I don't mean this email to belittle the influence of you or your
"scratching" on the greater fabric of our musical culture. Tom's own
assumed answer pointed to a specific DJ (Grandmaster Flash) so I though
to pick up his assumed reference to Hip Hop, which as I stated earlier
was un-influenced by any High Art vinyl turntablism that may have
proceeded it.

Don,

As an "inventor" whose inventions can still be accessed, I suggest
"Etudes des Chemins de Fer" of Pierre Schaffer, recorded in 1948 or so,
as being perhaps the earliest surviving example of turntabling. As it
was once released on a Ducretet-Thomson LP, you may even be able to find
it in your own corporate library. 

This is list for collectors, librarians and scholars. I am primarily a
scholar, and as such I am devoted to examining a question from every
angle.
I'm surprised to see so many of us trying to limit the topic, even to
the point of patronizing me here. However, something about those thrown
chairs emboldens one.

James:
You clearly have a personal axe to grind on this issue. To be fair, so
do I.
Even thirty years down the road, hip-hop is not afforded much respect
from the gate-keepers of "serious" music. I've lost count of the number
of times I've heard it dismissed by classical scholars and the like as
"noise" or some other equivilant of the "jungle music" epithet jazz got
thrown at it in the twenties. Even on this list, some people feel it is
unseemly for the Library of Congress to include hip-hop records on its
National Recording Registry. I leave it to others to figure out why
there might such prejudice against this uniquely American art form.

>
I can sympathize with you James - both as a "gate keeper" and an artist
within a realm so little known it doesn't get a lot of love
institutionally, least of all here it seems. At least the hip-hop
choices nominated to the registry have made it, and while I have never
nominated any, I certainly felt "Straight Outta Compton" belonged on the
list. I seriously doubt that were I to name an equivalent recording from
"outside" hip-hop - Orchid Spangiafiora's 1979 Twin/Tone album "Flee
Past Ape's Elf," for example - that it would be very seriously
considered by anyone. It is relevant, technically quite sophisticated,
and very, very "American" in spirit; most folks would call it "noise." 

I simply felt something needed to be said for the turntabling
establishment outside the South Bronx. Milestones that can apply equally
to Hip-Hop, "High Art vinyl turntablism" or even "Art Damage" artists
like myself tend to be most relevant within their own niche. Expanding
one outward and displacing the work of others exposes an untruth.
Enthusiasm about a given genre is a great thing, but in this case, the
redaction of seemingly easy and obvious milestones tends to cloud
forward developments of research in areas that sorely need it, even down
to documenting the ways kids used to manipulate records and what bearing
that may have on the matter. Ever asked a hip-hop artist if they did
that?

David N. Lewis
Assistant Classical Editor, All Music Guide
1168 Oak Valley Dr.
Ann Arbor, MI 48108
734 887 8145
 
Maybe music was not intended to satisfy the curious definiteness of man.
Maybe it is better to hope that music may always be transcendental
language in the most extravagant sense. ~ Charles Ives


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